My Take: 3-Series lease rates stayed relatively the same as last month. The only difference I am seeing is the 335i and 335xi getting a .0001 bump on the money factor. Here’s good news, there is $1000 lease cash available to customers, so make sure to factor that into your offer. The 335i is also getting special APR offers of 2.9% so those might be a better buy than a lease. I don’t want to sound like a broken record, but please remember to provide me with the MSRP, Sale Price, Inception Fees, Tax Rate, MF and Residual if you would like me to examine your deal. I’ve been asked numerous times to analyze a deal without those numbers and the truth is I can’t give you an accurate analysis of it without all those numbers. So make sure you get those numbers from your dealer. If they won’t give it, you shouldn’t be doing business with them. It is all about full disclosure folks. Would you buy a house without knowing the interest rest you would be paying? I know I wouldn’t.
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| At Invoice | At MSRP | |||||
| Make/Model | Invoice | MSRP | 24-month | 36-month | 24-month | 36-month |
| 2009 BMW 328i Sedan | $31,735 | $34,425 | $549 | $449 | $667 | $530 |
| 2009 BMW 335i Coupe | $39,650 | $43,025 | $691 | $532 | $837 | $632 |
NOTE: Estimates assuming the following conditions:
- Inception fees (1st month payment, DMV, doc fee, bank fee, tire tax and possible security deposit) due at signing.
- Local Taxes not included.
- 24-month/15k and 36-month/15k terms.
- All cars are stock, without any options.
- No rebates/incentives applied
2009 BMW 3-Series
2009 BMW 328i Sedan
24-month | 15k miles | residual 62% | .00220 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 57% | .00220 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 39% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 33% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 328xi Sedan
24-month | 15k miles | residual 62% | .00225 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 57% | .00225 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 38% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 32% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 328i Coupe
24-month | 15k miles | residual 60% | .00150 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 58% | .00150 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 36% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 31% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 328xi Coupe
24-month | 15k miles | residual 61% | .00150 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 58% | .00150 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 37% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 32% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 328i Convertible
24-month | 15k miles | residual 62% | .00180 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 58% | .00180 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 39% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 32% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 328i Wagon
24-month | 15k miles | residual 59% | .00215 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 55% | .00215 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 36% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 31% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 328xi Wagon
24-month | 15k miles | residual 60% | .00215 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 56% | .00215 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 35% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 30% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 335i Sedan
24-month | 15k miles | residual 61% | .00225 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 56% | .00225 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 37% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 32% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 335xi Sedan
24-month | 15k miles | residual 60% | .00225 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 56% | .00225 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 36% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 31% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 335d Sedan
24-month | 15k miles | residual 60% | .00215 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 56% | .00215 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 41% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 35% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 335i Coupe
24-month | 15k miles | residual 60% | .00175 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 57% | .00175 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 37% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 32% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 335xi Coupe
24-month | 15k miles | residual 61% | .00175 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 57% | .00175 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 37% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 32% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW 335i Convertible
24-month | 15k miles | residual 61% | .00180 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 56% | .00180 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 37% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 31% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW M3 Sedan
24-month | 15k miles | residual 54% | .00260 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 49% | .00260 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 37% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 31% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW M3 Coupe
24-month | 15k miles | residual 54% | .00260 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 50% | .00260 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 39% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 32% | .00260 base money factor
2009 BMW M3 Convertible
24-month | 15k miles | residual 50% | .00260 base money factor
36-month | 15k miles | residual 47% | .00260 base money factor
48-month | 15k miles | residual 35% | .00260 base money factor
60-month | 15k miles | residual 30% | .00260 base money factor
What are the residual and money rate factors for the 328i and 335i at 10,000 and 12,000 miles?
+2% for 12k and +3% for 10k
G –
Am I not doing this right. My 4 year 328i lease calculation comes out with higher monthly payments than a 3 year lease? Is it because the residual drops so dramatically and the money factor increases? And why does the residual drop so much in the 4th year?
you are correct. the residual/mf on a 48 month lease is horrible. lower residual means bigger loan. higher mf means higher interest on that bigger loan. even if you split it over 48 months instead of 36, you are still overpaying. BMWFS is doing this to discourage you from leasing past the 36-month term. They probably want to have some of the warranty and free maintenance left so it makes it easier to resale the car later when it gets turned in…that’s what I think anyway.
G –
The 3 year lease for a 328i coupe is coming out cheaper per month than a 328i sedan, even though the coupe has a higher msrp. Is this due to both the money factor being a lot lower and the residual being slightly higher. And why is the money factor that much lower for the coupe, do they need to offload more of these? Does this make sense? I was slightly leaning towards a sedan but might get a coupe is I’m calculating correctly.
G –
I’ve read somewhere there is a $1,260 free option credit for sedans (I suppose for auto transmission) however it’s not stated on Edmunds. The only thing mentioned on Edmunds is the $1,000 lease cash available for the sedan or coupe. Can you validate this? When calculating your lease, do you treat both of these as equivalent to a down payment?
@jess, without doing any math right now, I can tell you that, yes, it is possible for the coupe to be cheaper. However, there is a $1000 cash available on the sedan (not the coupe). I’ve confirmed this with Dave, so the sedan should be another 25-30 cheaper per month due to the rebate. As for the $1260 free option, I haven’t heard about it, so I cannot confirm. I usually prefer to apply my rebates towards the cap cost reduction instead of inception fees, so that is where I would put it.
What do you think of this deal on a 335 coupe:
MSRP: 50,925
Sale Price: 47,500
MF:.00175
Res: %59
Tax Rate 9%
Monthly: $589, $643 incl taxes
Total Due at signing is $2,450
and that was with 12k mi/year, 36 months
You are paying around 700-800 over invoice. Personally, I wouldn’t pay over invoice on any car right now unless I REALLY wanted it and couldn’t live without it. Your inception fees look alright though, it is a bit higher than usual due to the fact that you are probably paying for a security deposit. Try bring it closer down to invoice and see how many MSDs you can put down to bring down the money factor.
What is the money factor for the 328i and 335i sedans with Tier 2 and Tier 3 credit?
I have no idea. But I can tell you this. Anything less than Tier 1, its not worth it because you are overpaying.
G- You mean don’t even lease if you don’t have Tier 1? Buy?
Second, if I do lease, if the :
MSRP = 46,750
Invoice = 43,075
TMV – 43,888
But the dealer acknowledged a $1,000 lease cash and $1,260 sedan lease options cash, totaling $2,260, then it doesn’t appear to be factored into the TMV yet right?
Sorry Jess, what i mean is that if your credit is too low to qualify for tier 1, I wouldn’t bother leasing. Leasing is more expensive for people with credit scores below 700. In most cases, its more expensive than buying. Right now, the APR for purchases is much more attractive than for leases.
As far as TMVs are concerned, they usually factor in the rebates + whatever dealer discounts. If you are thinking 43888 – 2260, then you may be disappointed to find out that most dealers probably won’t go for it. There probably isn’t much of a profit for them at that price point.
G, I need some help. I am thinking of leasing the C350 sport Benz, My current car comes of lease in January of 2010. I figure with invoice purchase less 2k and adding options my car would net at 40,000.00. My state has 6 % tax which I would pay up front. They do not tax by the monthly payment. I would want 36 months 10k miles, What would a lease payment look like for me at this price. I would pay lease fees also but would not put any money down. I have excellent credit. Thanks for your help.
@wayne. I bit confusing on the model you want. but my guess is that you are looking at a model around $45k MSRP, with a sale price of $40k? If that is the case, this is what your payments would potentially look like…$502 per month. Here is what’s due at signing….around $2400 if you if you get taxed 100% of the vehicle’s sale price OR around $1272 if its just the depreciation part. Then you have to pay your MBZ bank acquisition fee, which some have reported around $800 and others have payed around $1100. There is your state tire fee, usually no more than $10 bucks. Your dealer doc fee, which varies from $595 to $45 (in CA), some dealers in certain states doesn’t even charge that. Lastly, your DMV registration. I have no idea how much that costs in your state, but the dealer can’t really pad that, so it shouldn’t be too bad. hope this helps give you an idea.
Thanks G. The model is the 350 C sport, yes came in at 45K retail. I would purchase in Va but live in Md. (I know the general manager here, went to school with him) I am currently in a 2007 Cadillac STS for 424/month the 501 sound high. Is it that residuals have dropped? I am taxed on what I apy, not 100%. Should I offer less? Should I wait for the 2010? When does it come out? Thanks for your help. Wayne.
The dealer is Crossroads BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Lincoln Mercury in Lynchburg Va. Real nice folks. I grew up in Lynchburg and live in Md. now but still get cars there. My last purchase there was a lease on a BMW Z4.
G actually msrp is 46350 and I pay 39259 with the 2000.00 rebate, thanks, Wayne
@wayne. based on the updated msrp and sale price, my calculations are coming out to about $462 a month. Your taxes would be 6% of the depreciation, or $881.64. Looks like you got yourself a deal. You probably can’t get a caddy for that kind of money now. Your inception fees will still be around $2000 assuming the dealer doesn’t charge you a hefty doc fee.
Thanks so much G, I will let you know what happens. Can I add a chip to the Benx 3.5 to boost HP?
@wayne. definitely keep me in the loot. regarding the chipping. Do so with caution because the warranty can be voided if it’s done incorrectly (or if the dealer finds out). I was more in the A4 chipping loop for a time, but I’m not too familiar with the Cs. Maybe I should line up with some vendors for the Cs, A4s, 3-series, IS and Gs. These seem to be the more popular leases lately.
What do you think of this lease deal for a 2009 328xi sedan loaner car with 2030 miles on it?
Term: 36 months/10,000 miles
Monthly Payment: $484 including taxes.
Initial payment: $1490. (Inception fees)
MSRP: $44800
Sales Price: $38000
MF: .00225
Residual: 60% but with $600 lowered due to the car having 2030 miles on it.
The effective Residual rate is 58.67%
Rebate: $1000
Tax: 10% – I live in Philadlephia,PA
Thanks for your help.
@JC. Not bad. 2k miles is nothing. The car is just a few months older than the rest. You got yourself a decent deal on the sale price, knocking a whole 6800 off the MSRP. Inception are actually just that, which is great. I would recommend some multiple security deposits to lower the money factor. This will lower your payments a bit and you get your money back when you return the car at the end of the lease.
I’d like to special order a 3 series but it won’t arrive for another several months. By the time it arrives the residual will be lower and the 2010s will just be coming out. The numbers quoted now could possibly go up by the time the car arrives right? Is it wiser to wait for the 2010s? Will the monthly payment end up around the same since the newer car will have a higher residual? Any big changes expected between the two years? Perhaps a backup camera?
@jks. If you preorder your 3-series, you can lock in this month’s rates, so you don’t have to worry about the car costing you more when it arrives. I have also heard that you can also opt for the delivery month’s rates, if they are better than the ones you lock in now. So there is an advantaged to special ordering your 3-series. If you are comfortable with the numbers this month, I don’t recommend waiting because it is very difficult to determine how well the 2010s will lease. Generally speaking, lease rates tend to be worse during the 2nd half of the year. There are exceptions of course, like last Dec, the 3-series rates were fairly attractive, but that’s more of the exception than the rule.
Can I lock in the residual or just the money factor?
Or do you mean, whatever the dealer quotes as my monthly cost, plus inception fees, can be locked in, as if I was buying it today? I was given the impression by the dealer, that there was a possibility the monthly payments might increase because the residual would decrease. It wasn’t mentioned that I could lock anything.
@jks. I believe you can lock both. Some of our my readers who’ve leased thought BMWFS have been able to lock in the lease rates for the ordering month and also given the opportunity to use the lease rates for the delivery month, if they were better. My advice to you is to ask the dealer specific questions about locking in lease rates and also having the option to change to the delivery month’s lease rates if they are better.
Hi G I have a question. I have a lower credit score 620 and don’t have enough experience on my credit. I went to BMW and they told me to put $4377 down ($2500 down plus inception fees) on a base 328i with power seats 36 months 15k miles a year. My payments would equal $406.60 a month including tax. Is this a good deal?
@jbr. I can’t tell if its a good deal since you did not provide the MF, residual, MSRP and your sale price. I suspect it isn’t since you are putting down so much cap reduction to make your payments affordable. Should you total the car in an accident or have the car stolen, all that money down will not be recoverable.
I found out you can lock in the MF, residual and selling price as well as the current $1,260 option credit and the $1,000 lease cash when waiting for a special order. If these all get better when the car arrives, then you can take advantage of the better conditions at that point.
This is what I have currently..how does it look?
MSRP – 46,750
Selling Price – 42,300 ($1,260 option credit already applied)
Net Cap – 41,738.43 ( with 561.58 cap reduction)
36 months
12,000 miles
.0024 MF (if I put down a deposit I can drop it to .00225)
58% or $27,115
Monthly payment $571.45 plus tax = $624.31
Drive Off
561.58 Capital Reduction
123.17 Cap Reduction Tax 9.25%
597.75 License and Registration
725.00 Bank Fee
55.00 Doc Fee (He said it raised from 45 to 55 recently?)
624.31 First Payment
Total Driveoff = 2,676.81 -1,000 (lease cash) = $1,676
I can not figure out what the $561.58 cap reduction and the $123.17 cap reduction tax is? I told them I don’t want to roll over any inception fees into the loan and want to pay it all up front but that I don’t want to put anything down beyond inception fees. I asked to take away the Capital Reduction and cap reduction tax (totaling $684.75) and they said it was part of the $1000 lease cash. It didn’t make sense. Then he said it made my net cap cost lower at 41,738.43. If he didn’t add the cap reduction then he wouldn’t be able to give the $1000 lease cash. Why not? I asked him where he got the $123.17 figure too and he didn’t know.
Can you tell me if I have a good deal and if everything seems okay.
@jks. doesn’t look like the dealer listened to you since there is cap reduction there, plus the applicable taxes on that reduction. So in order words, to lower the sale price by $571.45, you ended up paying $684.75. That is yet another reason why cap cost reduction is not a good idea. You are better off putting that money towards security deposits to lower the money factor. That MF really needs some lowering because it is a bit high. The whole concept of MSDs is to put as much security deposits to lower your MF by .00015 for each deposit you put down. Be sure to check with your dealers how many MSDs (multiple security deposits) you are able to put down. Your drive-off will be higher, but a good chunk of that is returned to you at the end of your lease (assuming you do not trade-in or sell the vehicle). Double check with another dealer (any dealer any brand if you are in CA, because I believe the state caps it at $45) to make sure that’s the case.
Things to keep in mind. Where you apply the lease cash makes a lot of difference. If you apply lease cash to reduce your inception fees, a good 9.25% of it gets eaten up by your state taxes. I have not verified this, but if you apply the lease cash towards cap reduction instead of the driveoff, you should be able to save yourself some money since the full $1000 is reduced from the sale price before the depreciation is financed and taxed. I have not verified this method since I generally negotiate the final sale price with the rebate in mind, but I don’t see why this can’t be done.
So here’s what I suggest your counter offer to be…
MSRP – 46,750
Selling Price – 42,300 ($1,260 option credit already applied)
Net Cap – 41,300 (with $1000 lease cash)
36 months
12,000 miles
.00225 MF (1 security deposit)
58% or $27,115
Monthly payment $547.96 plus tax = $598.65
Drive Off
597.75 License and Registration
725.00 Bank Fee
55.00 Doc Fee
$400 Security deposit
$598 first payment
Total – $2375.75 due at signing, with $400 returned to you at lease end.
Analysis…over the next 36 months, you will be saving $936 in monthly payments, $400 will be returned to you at least end (total of $1336).
However, your drive-off increases by $699, but overall you save $637 ($1336-$699) just by flipping numbers around and applying them in the “right” places.
Final thoughts, the math in leases is very complex, so making sure the right number goes into the right field is VERY important. Don’t get caught up on the rebates. Use them to factor your sale price offer, nothing else. If you don’t do that, you’ll end up having it applied on the drive-off, which is just plain silly since taxes will eat up nearly 10% of it in some states.
Hi G.
Here is what I have for you:
2009 328i
MSRP: 36,745
Sales Price: 33,745
Residual: 57% (15k miles a year)
MF: .00235
Sales tax in FL is 7%
Again, they want me to put $4377 down (because my credit is not strong enough with a 621 credit score) which includes $2500 down and inception fees. My payments over 36 months are $406.60 a month with 15k miles a year. They rolled the bank acquisition fee $925 into the monthly payments. They submitted info to the bank and to have me approved I have to put at least 10% down on the car’s selling price.
What do you think?
@jbr. I would considering using the $2500 towards multiple security deposits instead of cap reduction. Your payments may not lower as much, but at least you get that money back at lease-end. I also noticed your bank fee is higher than what BMWFS advertises on their website ($725). Lower credit score generally affects the MF only, which means you pay more in interest. I haven’t heard about the 10% down payment rule for leases. For buying, I have. In any case, you aren’t really paying 10% down payment anyway, so I’m not even sure if that’s legitimate or not. Leasing, with bad credit, will usually be more expensive. Either you pay more per month or you pay more up front, such as in your case. The positive thing is that the sale price is fairly competitive, but I think the money factor is higher than I would normally recommend on this lease. The 328i, this month, is not a good lease, if you factor in your credit score and all those fees, it looks even worse. Of course, I know you are caught in a situation where the only way to improve your credit history is borrow and pay back loans. So you just may have to suck it up and pull the trigger in order to improve your credit. For folks with excellent credit, this lease is far from ideal.
Thanks G. They told me today that multiple security deposits do not exist anymore. I went to two different dealerships and they both told me that the bank fee was $925? I will say something about it being only $725.
@jbr, the bmwusa websites states the bank fee is $725 so you may want to point them towards that and ask for an explanation. As for MSDs, I’m a bit surprised to hear that, I will need to double check with my dealer to see what the reason behind that is. One less reason to lease a 3-series right now.
Hi G,
I am looking to counter an offer for a 36/mo, 12,000 mi/yr lease on a 328i sedan provided to me over the phone by a dealership.Based on the numbers they gave me, the deal sounds bloated.
MSRP = $35,750
Sale Price = $29,900 (includes incentives)
Residual Value = 59%
Money Factor = 0.00220 (although the saleswoman said it may be 0.00235 which makes no sense…)
6.5% FL taxes
$421/mo all-in w/$2,600 of inception costs.
Inception costs were:
$421 first payment
$689 dealer fee
$227 tags
$69.50 lease fee
$1,195 bank fee
The bank fee at a near $500 premium to BMW’s website was what truly set me off.
@david. sale prices seem to be pretty good. the money factor of .00220 assumes that you put a security deposit, if you don’t, it is .00235. The security deposit drops the MF by .00015. Pretty standard stuff. Your bank fee is off the charts. I would ask for an explanation as to why its so ridiculously high. I’ve never heard of a “lease fee”. I’ve heard of tire fees, but those are usually under $10. Your dealer fee is also off the charts. I don’t know whats normal in FL, but we pay around $45 in CA. Another reader has reported a rise of $10, putting us at $55. Still, I know different states handle the dealer fee differently, so definitely check around to make sure your dealer isn’t trying to fleece you. Other than that. I like everything else, payments are very reasonable.
Please let me knoW if this its a good deaL OR NOT, i am going to pick up the car tomorrow. Thanks
Index Description MSRP
Base Price $44,550.00
0ZSP Sports Package 1,300.00
0494 Heated Front Seats 500.00
0609 Navigation System 2,100.00
Metallic Paint 550.00
Leather Upholstery 1,550.00
Destination and Handling 825.00
TOTAL AS EQUIPPED $51,375.00
SELLING PRICE $48,500.00
Lease Terms
Lender BMW Financial Services
Term 36 Months
Mileage 12,000/year
Money Factor 1.95
Residual Factor 60%
Selling Price $48,500.00
Total Capitalized Cost $48,500.00
Residual Value $30,825.00
Total Depreciation $13,448.11
Capital Reduction $4,226.89
Monthly Depreciation $373.56
Monthly Rent $146.44
Monthly Payment $520.00
Tax (8.375%) $0.00
Monthly Payment + Tax $520.00
Capital Reduction $3,226.89
Cap Reduction Tax (8.375%) $1,567.80
Up Front Tax (8.375%) $414.72
License & Registration $197.00
Bank Fee $725.00
Documentation Fee $45.00
First Payment $520.00
Security Deposit $0.00
Drive Off $6,696.41
Trade Equity $0.00
Rebate $0.00
Due at Signing $6,696.41
@gary. wow $6696.41 due at signing? that’s alot, and barely $3k off the MSRP? Bad deal. You are basically putting down money to lower your lease payment. Money you can’t get back. As far as the sale price is concerned, there isn’t a clean cut way to determine how much a “reasonable” offer is because sale prices vary from city to city. However, when in doubt I generally ask readers to shoot for 10% off MSRP. That’s because invoice is generally around that much. I also recommend that you put a security deposit down to lower your money factor. Overall, I don’t see any extraordinary charges/fees, which is good. Unfortunately, the dealer needs to work harder on the the sale price (maybe a couple grand more in discounts). You are putting down over $4k as down payment, but only about $3.2k is being applied to the lease loan (the rest go to taxes). That is one of the main reasons why I do not recommend putting money down. I’d rather pocket that extra $4k in a savings account, pay just the inception fees upfront and the higher monthly payment month by month. Then pull money from the $4k you saved to help offset the higher monthly payments if you like.
Hi G,
Please check out this lease offer I received for a 2009 328i Coupe (36 months with 12,000 miles per year):
MSRP: $42,950
Invoice: $39,580
Sale Price: $40,440 (incl Training, MACO and $300 over invoice)
MF: .00165
Residual: 60% or $25,770
LST: 9.25% (Los Angeles)
Months: 36
Monthly Payment: $555
$1.250 Total Due at signing:
1st payment $543.17
Cap Reduction (Lease Cash offer?) $1,008.69
Sales tax on down $98.38
License Plate $544.75
Doc Fee $55
I have a few concerns though. It seems they gave me the lease cash offer with $1,000 off due at signing (should be $2,250, now $1,250). Shouldn’t the $1,000 lease cash offer be a cap cost reduction (similar to down payment, but paid by BMW) that should lower my monthly payment? I believe my monthly payment should be calculated with Cap Cost of $39,440 (with lease cash offer), not the sell price of $40,440.
I appreciate any advice. Thanks!
-KZO23
@KZ023. it is more common for dealers to apply it towards drive-offs instead of cap reduction. I prefer cap reduction personally since I prefer having my loan to be lower. I’ve always negotiated my sale prices with the rebate in mind. I just don’t tell the dealer that I am aware of the rebate. So for example, I would tell the dealer I want the car for $39k plus all my inception fees upfront. No cap reduction. When cash is applied as “cap reduction”, it gets taxed. if you are able to knock off the $1k from the sale price instead, it doesn’t.
Now looking at your number it looks good and it doesn’t look like the dealer has any hidden costs, so that’s good because they are being honest. It’s just that pricing isn’t as competitive as I think it can be in the LA area. Now, you may want to consider the security deposit in order to lower your money factor to the base rate of .00150. That should save you some additional money and you can get your security deposit back later when you turn in your car.
@KZ023. I just read the fine print on the $1000 lease cash BMW is offering ont he 3-series. Apparently, they are forcing you to take it as cap cost reduction, so you have to pay taxes on it. Looks like there isn’t a way around that one.
Here’s my current deal as of today:
335i sedan
3 years, 12,000 miles
MSRP: 48,375
Cap Cost: 43,855 ($1,260 applied)
MF: .00225
Residual : 58%
45.00 Doc Fee
4.16 (9.25 doc fee tax)
629.00 Registration
658.18 1st month
700.00 Security deposit
725.00 Acquisition fee
67.06 (9.25% Acquisition fee tax)
No cap cost reduction, only driveoff is the above fees.
I have three issues:
1) This ones actually benefits me by $2:
I calculated the following:
Drive off: $2,828.40 – $1,000 lease cash = $1,828.40
BMW dealer somehow got $2826.41 – $1,000 = $1,826.41
(They’re allowing the $1,000 lease cash rebate to be subtracted from the driveoff)
2) Registration – according to https://mv.dmv.ca.gov/FeeCalculatorWeb/newVehicleFees.do – comes to $592 but they are charging me $629 license/registration. Is there another license fee? Are they padding $37?
3) The monthly quoted is $658.18 but according to your lease calculator, it should be $656.18. Is this $2 x 36 months totaling $72, another padding?
Overall am I getting a good deal? And if so, should I just let this $72 plus $36 – $2 = $106 slide?
@J. Something’s wrong with their math. I’ve double checked with my calculator AND I also calculated by hand using the lease formula and I’m getting $656.18. There may be a typo, so watch for that. Dealers can make mistakes when entering numbers in their system, so you just have to keep an eye out for those things. The DMV reg may be a padding or the dmv website may be off in their calculation. I haven’t encountered padding of the DMV registration before, so that does come to me as a surprise. I also notice you aren’t being charged for the tire tax which hovers around $8 or so? Also, I’m surprised you aren’t being taxed on the $1000 lease cash. The lease cash can only be used as cap cost reduction, which gets taxed. So with that said, they MAY be up-charging you by $106, but they aren’t charging you about $92.50 in taxes on that $1000 lease cash and there isn’t a $8 charge on the tire fee. Your call as far as what you want to do, but the deal seems fair in my opinion.
LA tax rates have gone up today to 9.75%. I understand the upfront tax is applied to where you buy/lease the car. But what about subsequent monthly payments? Are those also based of where your dealer is or where you reside. Would buying in Orange County versus LA County lower my monthly taxes?
@J. The monthly payments are assessed the sales tax on a monthly basis, therefore, when you taxes go up, so do your payments. Since taxes are based on where you live, it won’t make any difference where you buy your car. BTW, would it be possible that the $2 increase in your payments its due to your increase in sales tax? If that’s the case, their math should be inline with what you should be paying.
Hi G, Please recap the fees on a 10K 36 month Mercedes C350 lease. Money factor, acquisition fee etc any fee The dealership can legitimately charge. Thanks, Wayne
@wayne. the most common fees you will encounter is the bank acquisition fee, dealer doc fee, tire fee, dmv fees and taxes associated with those fees. You may also encounter security deposits as well, depending on who you lease with. Generally speaking, only the dealer doc fee is negotiable. Unfortunately, that number is so arbitrary, it is hard to determine what a “fair” offer is for that. I’ve seen fees range from nothing to $600+. Money factors are also subject to “markups” at some dealerships, so beware of that. In most cases, a simple security deposit and excellent credit score can secure you the base rate. Remember that all states operate a bit differently, specially regarding sales taxes, so make sure you double check with other dealerships to compare your quotes.
OK what isBenz’s base money factor and what is the aquisition fee and base doc fee. I have Tier 1 credit and lease a bmw from this dealer before. I know the GM but I still want to be prepared for my July 11 visit.I want the C350, think the BMW335I is overpriced. Wayne.
G what is your opinion of the C350 vs the 335I? The difference between the horse power seems very little. I am 62 and told that the Benz has a nicer ride. I would appreciate your input, Thanks.
@wayne. MBFS’s money factors can be found here. http://www.ridewithg.com/index.php/2009/06/09-mercedes-benz-c-class-lease-rates-june-2009/. I don’t have July’s numbers yet though. I’m guessing they’ll be leaked in the next week or so. As for the bank acq fee, I’ve been told $1095, but that seems to fluctuate depending on which state you live in. Doc fee varies as well depending on where you live. We, in CA, pay $45. But i’ve also heard that they raised it to $55.
Regarding the 335i and C350, the 335i is more of the “driver’s car” and packs a lot more punch. The ride is also a bit stiffer than the C350, specially with a sports package. The C350, is more tame, luxurious and has a nice fit and finish. A bit softer ride than the 335i and doesn’t handle as precise. Still a very solid car. I love the design and overall look and feel of the car. Some folks have said that 3series’ interior is more luxurious, but I disagree. I feel the 3series interior a bit cramped.
Yes I noticed the 0-60 difference was only 3 seconds difference and that is not much.
G –
2009 335i Sedan
MSRP: $48,375
Cap Cost: $43,855 ( Option Credit of $1,260 applied)
Invoice : $44,455
TMV: $45,400
Seems to me after taking out the $1,260 credit, I’m about $660 over invoice. Can I get closer to invoice?
Do you have July money factors for the 335i and the CLK 550 ?
@Jess. You might be able to, but keep in mind that BMW dealers do not have a holdback, therefore, getting close to invoice usually means lower profit margin for them, which is something they don’t like to do. Of course, it never hurts to try.
Nothing on the CLK550, but the 335i numbers are posted. Coupes are leasing better than last month tho.
Hello G
Index Description MSRP
Base Price $44,550.00
0ZSP Sports Package 1,300.00
0494 Heated Front Seats 500.00
0609 Navigation System 2,100.00
Metallic Paint 550.00
Leather Upholstery 1,550.00
Destination and Handling 825.00
TOTAL AS EQUIPPED $51,375.00
SELLING PRICE $48,500.00
Lease Terms
Lender BMW Financial Services
Term 36 Months
Mileage 12,000/year
Money Factor 1.95
Residual Factor 60%
Selling Price $48,500.00
Total Capitalized Cost $48,500.00
Residual Value $30,825.00
Total Depreciation $13,448.11
Monthly Payment $700.00
Includes tax, title and registration
Let me know if this is a good deal
@gary. can you tell me what model this is? 335i sedan? coupe? Overall, I’m thinking the payments look a bit high because the sale price is still a bit too high. May need to come down a bit.
G: Here’s my deal…
328Xi – Auto, Nav, Comfort Access, Heated Seats.
MSRP: 40,850
Cap Cost: 36,495(includes 500 profit + 180 Training)
Adjusted Cap: 35,495 (1,000 loyalty)
RV: 57%
MF: .00176 (7 MSD’s of $500 per)
Term: 36M/15K
Tax: 6%
Payment:
469.18
Drive Off:
469.18 First Month
60. Cap Reduction Tax
93. DMV 1st year Reg (my plates)
3,500. Security Deposit
399.Conveyance Fee
825. Accquisition Fee
79.02 Up Front Sale Tax
5,425 Total at initial payment
$500 refundable deposit to hold till delivery.
What do you think?
@paul. $180 Training? Never even heard of that before. Also, I think there’s a $1840 option credit for xDrive sedans. Also what’s Conveyance fee? dealer documentation? Wow all these crazy fees. LOL. Have you crosschecked the fees with another dealer to see if those are legitimate. I mean, I haven’t heard of some of them, but fees tend to vary a little bit from state to state. The deal isn’t HORRIBLE. But I have to question the “extras”.
The cap cost is after 1840 option credit.
Dealer Conveyance fee is the doc fee the dealer charges for the paperwork!!! Scondrels! Then BMWFS charges 825 for Accquisition fee. More scondrels!!!
Most dealers in my area CT have them…
The training fee is on the invoice, so I’m told. The dealer insists they can’t get rid of it… any ideas?
So if you break down the fee’s you get:
500 profit
180 training
825 Accquisition
399 Conveyance
total: 1904
How much do you think is real profit for the dealer? What about for the leasing company?
I think there is still room to go lower, I just dont have the tools to negiotiate them with… any suggestions?
@paul. the conveyance is basically profit too. I still dont’ get the training part. I’d have them explain training because it sounds ridiculous. The good thing is that they are being upfront with your fees and the sale price is what they say it is. My recommendation would be to check out of state and see if its worth going elsewhere to avoid that extra fees. If a dealer say in NY would be willing to keep the deal relatively the same, just without the training and a lower dealer “conveyance” fee, they perhaps it’s worth the drive. Since BMW offers free service included in every car, you can always have it serviced at the CT dealer. They are clearly making profit here, $500 over invoice, $180 training and $399 dealer doc fee is all profit. Thats not considering the fact that their invoice price may very well be a bit lower than whats generally known. The bank clearly makes money due to the interest rates an the hefty bank acquisition fee they impose. But they do that because they have to assume the risk of depreciation of the vehicle. If resale values drop significantly in 3 yrs, then they could lose some more money.
Ok, so I called the guy and told him that I am a current 3 series lessee and he dosn’t have to “train” me on the car. We both laughed and then I told him NO DEAL unless he losses the 180 fee. Ten minutes later it disapeared. He is probably out having a beer right now.
MSRP: 40,850
New Cap cost: 36,315
(includes 500 profit + no Training)
Adjusted Cap: 35,315 (1,000 loyalty)
RV: 57%
MF: .00176 (7 MSD’s of $500 per)
Term: 36M/15K
Tax: 6%
New Payment:
463.54 per month
And I owe it all to you!!! Thanks.
@paul. damn, i wish i could make 180 bucks in 10 minutes. LOL. Congrats. So much for the “its part of the car, cant take it out”. Sure you can. let this be a lesson for everyone. Watch for bogus fees! $180 bucks may not seem like much, but that a lot of lunches for me. 🙂
Hello G sorry
the car is
2009 328i convertible
Index Description MSRP
Base Price $44,550.00
0ZSP Sports Package 1,300.00
0494 Heated Front Seats 500.00
0609 Navigation System 2,100.00
Metallic Paint 550.00
Leather Upholstery 1,550.00
Destination and Handling 825.00
TOTAL AS EQUIPPED $51,375.00
SELLING PRICE $48,500.00
Lease Terms
Lender BMW Financial Services
Term 36 Months
Mileage 12,000/year
Money Factor 1.95
Residual Factor 60%
Selling Price $48,500.00
Total Capitalized Cost $48,500.00
Residual Value $30,825.00
Total Depreciation $13,448.11
Monthly Payment $700.00
Includes tax, title and registration
THANK YOU G
@gary. you’re paying too much. The discount is not quite large enough if you ask me. See if you can get somewhere around $500 above invoice. That would be around $47.7k.
Hey G > One last thing…
you said “their invoice price may very well be a bit lower than whats generally known”… can you expand on this?
Is the true invoice hidden or can it be found? thanks.
@paul. the invoice price you see on edmunds for example, its just a “ballpark” figure for what the dealer likely paid for the vehicle. Unfortunately, I don’t know of any resource out there that can actually find out how much a car was purchased from the manufacturer.
hello g
the car i found is a demo 6700 miles 328xi 2009
msrp 46050
selling price 38690
total due at signing 3600
includes all fees n taxes no down payment.
12,000 miles
monthly payment $485
is this a good deal and if not could you tell me what monthly payment i should shoot for.
Thanks G
@gary. deal looks pretty good. $7360 or 16% off MSRP is pretty darn good, even if it’s “slightly” used. Even with the $1840 AWD option credit, you wouldn’t get more that 1000-1500 below invoice. Not bad at all.
328 xi sedan
Sorry G
Lease
Gary, That sounds like a great deal in my opinion. I’d like to see if my local dealers have any demos since the 3 series in my price range are bare bones.
G, I’m confused on the credit. I thought it was for $1260 and for an Auto.
I’m going to BMW tomorrow and I’m going to look at 328xi autos. Should I be looking for the $1840 credit to go along with the $1000 lease cash?
@ryan. the $1260 is automatic transmission option credit. the $1840 is an AWD option credit. Not sure if you can combine the two though. But you can definitely combine the lease cash and one of the option credits.
Can you please tell me if this is a good deal or not?
2009 BMW 335i Sedan
Space Gray Metallic
Black Dakota Leather
M Sport Package
Premium Package
Steptronic Trans.
Alarm System
Comfort Access
Sport steering wheel w/paddles
Navigation system
Satellite radio
Premium hi-fi audio system
iPod and USB adapter
MSRP = $54,370.00
Sales Price = 51,470
36mo/10k miles
Cap Cost = 53,825 (includes tire warranty and EOL wear and tear waiver)
Cap Cost reduction = 1,000
Adjusted Cap Cost = 52,825
Document fee 599
Residual Value = 32,078.30 (59%)
Rent Charge = 8,099.74
Total of Base Monthly Payments = 28,846.44
Monthly payment = (801.29 + 56.08 tax) = 857.37
Cash due = 2,609.30 – 1,000 Rebate
Cash paid at signing = 1,609.30
Thanks in advance for the feedback.
@richard. Your sale price is about $600 over invoice. Not horrible. Problem is this. You have $1000 cap reduction. Don’t do that. Also, this is a sedan, you should qualify for the $1260 automatic option credit, i’m not seeing it. tire warranty, wear and tear waiver, read the fine print find out what it does cover and what it doesnt. also seems a bit steep. Are you telling me that that package adds $2355 to the cap cost? now way. I’d rather buy my own tires at lease end. probably cost me about a $1000. Damage waiver, never had it, never needed it, but if you feel the need to be safe than sorry, go ahead and get it. Doc fee, wow expensive. Whats the bank acq fee? Overall, car is a kind of expensive with the payments at 857. I would suggest applying all discounts (rebate and option credit) towards cap reduction, then paying your fees plus a few MSDs upfront to lower the money factor further, because at .00225, its a bit high.
Thanks for the quick reply. To clarify, the cap reduction is the $1000 they told me that BMW FS is paying as my down payment. They chose to apply it as cap reduction. The sales price is MSRP minus the 1260 for auto-trans and minus $1,640 that I negotiated.
I currently lease a 2006 330i through BMW FS that I’m turning in next week when my new 335i arrives. I had also purchased the tire/wheel warranty on the 330i and it more than paid for itself with two tires being taken out by screws and one by a hidden pot hole. I assume it’s true that Run-Flats can’t be repaired, they must be replaced?
This waiver covers me up to $5,000 for any tire or wheel damage I incur as a road hazard.
The EOL damage waiver is a little pricey, but I prefer to pay a few hundred now instead of getting a big wear and tear surprise bill at the end. This waiver covers up to $5000 for any items that fail the inspection such as bald tires or damaged leather seats. I probably won’t add this on my 3rd BMW lease.
I’m not sure what the bank acquisition fee is. Sounds like dealer profit to me.
What is the current MF on this deal? If I added 7 MSD’s what would the new MF be? How would that change the monthly payment? Without paying additional security deposits, what should the MF have been (what are you seeing as the average dealer padding)? Is this were the dealer makes their most profit?
Thanks!
@richard. If your sale price is after rebates, then that’s not a good enough discount in my opinion. If it were me, I would have negotiated $500-$600 over invoice plus the rebates. Bank acquisition isn’t dealer profit. Dealer documentation fee is.
From what I am hearing now, the MF gets lowered by 0.0007 per security deposit or about 0.0049 after 7 security deposits. Padding the MF is dealer profit, so finding it online and cross checking the mf with a few dealers doesn’t hurt. Dealers make profit in many areas, from fees, holdbacks (not so much BMW since they don’t have that), selling above invoice and lastly, service repairs and warranty work, to name a few.